RANT about Keys Lock not fit for purpose due to illogical non-linear Scaler output

Scaler 3 General Discussion
,
1

Firstly, sorry for my (annoyed) tone in this video, but this one function is largely all I use scaler for, and it is IMO not fit for purpose… I have also written about this since I bought Scaler 2 last year, and then was on the beta for Scaler 3, I brought it up several times… but never had any explanation or notice that it is being delt with, or being changed etc…

From my position, there seems to be no reason why the potentially EXCELLENT “keys lock” tool which is for non-experts - helping them jam in tune - should be handicapped / ruined by the way Scaler 3 plays higher or lower notes in a non-linear, illogical way.

At present, when you have keys lock on, and you press keys from left to right, the pitch DOES NOT get higher in a linear fashion, as you’d expect. With a piano, as even a novice like myself knows, the notes get higher and higher towards the right and lower and lower towards the left. With Scaler, it gets lower and higher in both directions, ie there is no logic, or not a logic that makes any sense to a beginner, the kind of person who would be using such a POTENTIALLY great feature.

If you are using this tool to jam, you know one thing only, that when you press a note to the right of your current note, you do that because YOU WANT TO HEAR A HIGHER NOTE. So when Scaler forces you to hear a lower note instead, that is very disconcerting and is like throwing a bunch of spanners in the flow, messing up the creative process.

If there is some technical music theory reason why Scaler does this absurd thing, it is misplaced. As I mentioned, this funciton is largely used by people like myself who don’t have the ability to know which notes are going to work in your current chord, all users do know is that left is deeper, right is higher… and that should be that. At very least this logical, linear, piano-like behaviour should be an option.
Watch the video here showing what I mean

PLEASE PEOPLE!!!
@Tristan @davide

2

We’ve been here several times with users and we get it. It’s one way or another and sometimes our opinions fall on ‘another’. There are several things we like to do like keep the octave range relevant: degrees on the same note of each octave, degree 1 always starting on a C or not run into silly pitches (C6,C7, C8 for example). We need to bear in mind that often there really are only four workable octaves in which if using Chord Notes you have three notes x 4 available (12 notes) so how would you span it across a keyboard?
Limiting the range and having feels and moods would help here and that is where we are heading.
Finally the new ‘Chord Scales’ mode does exactly what you want, and because we can use all 7 keys of the scale we can span it across the entire keyboard. I think that’s a great solution to do what you want.
Hope that all makes sense and always happy to hear suggestions.

3

Hi Davide, Sorry for my bluntness but that seems pedantic and also oblivious of the type of user who would be using this JAMMING function (novices like myself!). Aside from this (IMO) miscalculation of who might use this function, it also does not work logically, as you can see in this video which shows how the octaves jump higher and lower seemingly at random.

“Chord scales” goes part of the way. It disregards (correctly and necessarily IMO) the pitch of the keys you press, ie C key is not a C if you are in some other chord… this makes sense as it’s white keys only. BUT, Chord Scales plays ALL NOTES in a scale, which is cool for a more advanced player, but Chord Notes is more restrictive, which is better for beginners… and beginners don’t give a hoot about the “octaves” if they are jamming… they don’t have the skill to do that, and besides, going UP an octave can often be going DOWN an octave in Scaler… so?

Anyhow, I can’t see it (a “NOVICE JAMMING MODE”) being a difficult thing to implement, a Chord Notes function that increments in a linear fashion! Even if it is only 3 or 4 octaves, no crazy notes needed!

Please have a look at the video

4

@davide giving it more thought, a really useful and powerful addition to the NOVICE JAMMING MODE would be one where the user can customise the restriction of notes by being able add 7ths or 4ths etc… so they can bring in more notes outside of the basic chord notes, and STILL have this increment L to R.
After all, people like me know we want something “a bit higher” or “a lot lower” for the next note, and this would be the best way to achieve that… currently it’s not useable as a novice jamming mode.

5

another thing
the keys that are sonically an octave apart are not necessarily an octave apart on the physical keyboard… weakening the logic of choosing to make adherence to octaves be of importance.
see here

6

Still doesn’t seem to work right in 3.2. It’s inconsistent. I don’t have the patience like Fredphoesh to describe the issue. Seems chord notes is useless as it is, IMHO.

7

Hi, yes, it’s a massive disappointment… really THIS is why I bought Scaler, I thought that was possible, and had hopes with all the new stuff being revealed when v3 came out… disappointed again… I truly don’t understand why it is so difficult, or so unwanted… to me it would be the most intuitive way to jam, when you want a note that’s a bit higher, you hit the next note. If you want a note that’s more high, then tap a note 3 or 4 notes higher… like a colouring-in book!! At present the pitch jumps octaves all up and down the keyboard, and it’s really horrid to use. What can I say. Davide has never given any convincing explanation as to why it’s not a feature… :man_shrugging:

8

Davide said

There are several things we like to do like keep the octave range relevant: degrees on the same note of each octave, degree 1 always starting on a C or not run into silly pitches (C6,C7, C8 for example). We need to bear in mind that often there really are only four workable octaves in which if using Chord Notes you have three notes x 4 available (12 notes) so how would you span it across a keyboard?

I think you are missing the mark by being pedantic. The people who would find this useful, like me, could not care less what colour note, where it is on the keyboard, that’s really not even remotely important. What IS important is for the player to be able to FEEL what to play next. Someone who can FEEL a note knows if it is a LITTLE bit higher or several notes higher, or a lot higher… So the FEEL I am talking about is the only thing that matters. Whether a note WAS C or WAS G or whatever… is irrelevant, it only matters that the user HEARS what note they are pressing and they can HEAR in their heads the note they want to hear. They reach for the spot on the keyboard that FEELS like the right distance from where they were. It is perfectly intuitive. It is not a mathematical formula and should not be, and hearing octaves jump up and down all over the place to me is like a pile of vomit. Sorry to be harsh, but it drives me MAD.

9

mmm, I was one of those who have always wanted that feature working…
and I ended using other tools to have that feature

nevertheless, I ended buying an axe and starting to practice it with more rewarding results

doing a melody, a riff, or just embellishment notes, is not just a question of hitting some notes in a chord… soul, listening, pauses, dynamics, and rhythm matter way more, and no piece of software can give you that

This also applies to photography BTW: if you use only the automatic mode, the results will be repetitive, boring, dull, un-rewarding :roll_eyes:

And I am speaking of learning to use an axe, whose fretboard is way more complex than a keyboard (piano, synth, etc.)

So, if I were in your shoes, I just started to learn how doing the right notes, hands-on on your keyboard, leaving to Scaler the stuff it can do better, e.g. finding progressions, chords that sound well together, etc.

My 2 cents from an ex-mousier :grin:

10

Well, obviously, one has to have feel etc regardless of what or how… but the point is to be able to have the possible notes restricted to help people who do not play piano properly. Saying “you should learn” is missing the point, owning software like this is ONLY of value to those who are not professional pianists. I’ve showed Scaler to two professional pianists I know and they have zero interest, because they play what they hear in their heads, and don’t need a wizard creating chord progressions… I DO, so am always hoping I can find a tool to help with that. At this point, I have no use for scaler, sadly.

11

I am not a professional either
Anyway, if this is the only feature you need, you can only hope that it will be improved a day or another
sorry, I just tried to help

12

@ClaudioPorcellana have you tried the new Keys Lock mode “Chord Scale”? I have just tried it, and it SEEMS to be exactly what we/I want!! IE it

1/ follows the scale and plays all the notes in that scale,

2/ on the white notes,

3/ smoothly going from low to high,

4/ NO OCTAVE JUMPS!!! and

5/ NO DOUBLE NOTES!!!

So far, this is doing the job, I need to fiddle more but it seems Xmas has come early from Australia to England, just in time for the world cup semi :grin::joy::crossed_fingers::glowing_star: Thanks @davide !!

13

Happy to see that it works :grinning_face:

I think I tried it a few times, but I prefer creating melodies, riffs, and solos with my bare hands on the fretboard now, while for piano/organ parts I currently prefer automatic plugins that use the Scaler output like e.g. the UJAM Virtual Pianos

I realized that learning to play one instrument is the only goal I can reach at my age and with my poor skills, so the rest of “the band” must work automatically :grin: