I hope my “frustration” feedback translates to something along the lines of helpful in some way. You have always seemed very cool and like you said, composer first; I totally get that. I am a software architect first, composer-dead-last, so perhaps I should know better and should have considered my words more carefully.
I believe you will find the right combination in time with Scaler 3 and I look forward to upcoming patches. I’m also excited to read that you’re using Scaler the way I prefer to - I just need to learn and adapt.
Keep up the good work and at least you can tell a lot of folks really care!
Does Scaler 3 have various modes of use, such as beginner, intermediate, advanced, as well as ‘purpose modes’ simplifying the interface to present only what is relevant for the chosen aim?
If not, these things would be very useful game-changers as there is a world of difference between using Scaler as an experienced composer well versed in musical theory, and using it as a newbie trying to make sense of theory. For the latter, a teaching mode, which adds features once each aspect is understood, would prove invaluable.
While I love video tutorials, they are only really useful to beginners/intermediate etc. if they aren’t compromised by the developers/presenter(s) moving at speeds which reflect longer familiarity with the finally unveiled product. Why? Because such a person may forget to explain rapid choices or actions which have become habituated (unconscious to them) during the development process or advanced musical training.
In reality, tutorials shouldn’t be about beating a clock for YouTube. Better to split them and really share tge knowledge.
I haven’t had time to explore 3 yet, so apologies if this has already been addressed. I am very much looking forward to it.
Well, first of all, I aplogize. I am insomniac and maybe something that I’ll put on the paper, , sorry, on the screen will look like sensless
I was testing Scaler for several months and, yes, there is a huge difference between this version and the previous one. Different organization of functionalities, added things… But, essentially, this is very familiar product. I can easily find all I used before: detect, circle of fifts, scales selector, but the new things also.
So far, I can tell that I am not that lost in the interface. I just need to learn the new functionality by adapting my workflow, and this is a bit complicated. That’s why i use my existing workflow, more or less, and will try to integrate the new things over time. I still work with Scaler 3 as if it were an evolution, but it can be freely consider as a revolution.
Yeah, sorry, but I’m generally in agreement. The UI needs work… crazy small buttons for turning motion on or off, humanise etc. When you go into Motion settings you can only click to preview? Why not the ability to select and then play without having to come out of that screen? Clicking and previewing one chord by holding the mouse is annoying and not helpful tbh. Selecting and previewing with the keyboard as usual along with the ability to move through the presets with cursor keys, surely, would be quick and more productive…
I am a software engineer almost 30 years… such “frustration” is my life…
Snap… but mine’s more like 50 years …and coming from that perspective, and as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, the interface design is really kindof wanting… IMO.
I guess it can sortof be excused in the plugin as many do not follow ‘interface guidelines’ per se… but the ‘window management’ side in the standalone should really work like any other (Windows) application. No maximize, no System menu, why have ‘settings’ and ‘options’ and the redundancy they offer on the same window? I understand trying to get away from menus/pulldowns.. but y’don’t need ‘doubled buttons’ that largely do the same thing..
F’sure, it’s more like a new product.. and there are new features that I like.. but it’s largely redundant, probably by design.. as ‘they’ are trying ‘to be all things to all people’ (= fraught). The [ ] item in the ‘Main Track’ gives you the same sort of features as the ‘Explore’ panel in the 2nd (unlabelled… oh.. ‘Create’) page… and this is actually one of the most valuable features for me… but I’m still working it out… and YMMV…
I’m also coming to grips with the quirky differences in this page, for example, there are ‘play’ arrows on the ‘sequence’ in the ‘Colors’ and ‘Sketch’ panels, but not in the ‘Modulation’ panel.. in which case you have to use the ‘main’ arrow to move through the sequence (I think).
Oh… and why do we have to always start from the beginning of the track? Each ‘chord tile’ could have a ‘play’ arrow on it, for example, which is probably easier for users and easier to implement than trying to maintain a ‘song position pointer’ (a nod to the MIDI-familiar folks ).
In short, it’s going to take me months to get through all of this.. but it certainly has some very useful ideas and extensions to what the previous versions of Scaler provided… but I still think it’s probably different enough from that lineage to call it something else…
Edit: 2025.04.02 01:30 UTC: Ohhh, this is really annoying… in the standalone version (Windows):
“Options” (top left) takes you to load/save AND “Audio/MIDI Settings..”
“Settings” (top right) takes you to “Audio/MIDI Settings…”
“Close” (top right) seems to remove the (top right) “Settings” and “Close” buttons… but leaves the (pseudo)-status line and the (top left) “Options”… but there’s no (obvious) way to bring back the (top right) “Settings” and “Close” buttons
“3 lines menu” (top right) takes you to a different “Settings” dialog.. which includes “Playback” (settings) and “Preferences” (settings)… but worse, if you select the “Save As Defaults” button, there’s nothing to indicate it saved anything or if the operation succeeded or failed.
I’m going to remain hopeful… I know there are a lot of people that know a lot about their own creation process, and I did learn a lot from Scaler2. But, when I saw the videos for 3 I was relieved to see something that could work with how I was playing with Scaler 2 with added features… I for one am looking forward to finding the time to work with it.
I’m still learning about Scaler 2… and looking forward to learning Scaler 3!
I’lm just hoping I’ll get there one day!
I’ve read all the comments - lots of constructive discussion, and I’ve noticed that there are several software designer folks here.
I find it strange that no one has mentioned the fact that the GUI is not scalable vertically or horizontally (think Toontrack products as an example) - only proportionately. I’ve mentioned this in other threads.
I’m well versed in music theory but clueless when it comes to GUI design.
Any software folks that can shed light on this? Would this be difficult to implement in the GUI?
Modern scaling is always proportional to my knowledge. I own a lot of Toontrack as well and must be honest - have never tried just scaling vertically or horizonal. Cannot see a lot of need for that.
Overall - I am simply glad SC3 can be scaled at all. I will take what I get
This often becomes an issue in multi-monitor and ‘portrait mode’ display configurations; some hardware works ‘better’ or needs different (software) settings in this sort of configuration.
I have (2) 48" 4k monitors in Portrait mode. If you scale vertically, you can see a LOT more - and avoid lots of scrolling. Same would go for horizontal.
Well - considering all the other more critical operational issues that Scaler 3 has right now - I am hoping that the dev team places a priority on “needs of the many” rather the “needs of the few” when it comes to fancy scaling abilities.
Most modern plug-ins, especially synths, are only proportionally scalable, many of them gradually in predetermined percentage steps. The entire Arturia Collection, Omnisphere and Serum, for example. Effects plug-ins are no different. An exception to this is Kontakt from Native Instruments, but on the other hand they also have plug-ins that still can’t be scaled. So I think that individual disproportionate scaling is more likely to be the exception.
In any case, I can’t see that Scaler 3 is supposed to be faulty in this respect.
Not saying Scaler 3 is faulty by any means - I really like it. Just think it would greatly enhance workflow and visibility if you could scale the GUI (especially vertically) and see so much more of the interface.
If I had to fight my way through this number of table rows on a 48” monitor, I personally wouldn’t be able to keep track of anything - and certainly not without numbered and visually separated rows (as in the spreadsheet). Your example with the Toontrack browser is certainly very special and unusual …
This is why in some interfaces with many rows of output, they use ‘alternate row shading’ to help readability. It goes back to ‘the good ol’ days’ (HA HA) when we used to use fan-fold paper for printed reports from the computers, telex machines, etc, as the alternating background colour for each line made the reports easier to read.
Even in the ‘standard’ Scaler display, where there’s a ‘cursor’ of a different background shade, it would be helpful if you could display each scale line (in ‘Section B’) with dark/light/dark/light… as well as having the titles selectable to toggle the display sort order.. or even have a ‘speed search’ to help find an option faster..
I am actually surprised to see the frustration with scaler 3 as my experience has been total opposite. Especially as far as the UI goes, I absolutely find it to be an improvement over scaler 2.
Scaler 2, while i did see the value, just almost never yielded usable results for me, i found the performance options to be clumsy to navigate, and i was always breaking my arrangements trying to work in it, to the point where i was just using it more like a chord dictionary for different inversions of chords. I would just click and drag out things that i had already written outside of scaler 2 into my daw.
I do have a good amount of music theory under my belt as my degree is in music (i dont know how this impacts my experience here), so i was still getting some use out of it just to help me shake up the way i played the chords.
But Scaler 3 on the other hand has been a breeze to create with. Instead of using it as just a database of chords, i am able to compose music with it. The workflow just makes sense to me where scaler 2 was a nightmare for me.
As I am writing this I have noticed that there seems to be two vocal groups of people in this - those that found scaler 2 intuitive (and are not gelling with scaler 3) and those that foudn scaler 2 to be unintuitive (and are getting along really well with scaler 3). Luckily for both groups scaler 3 is its own product and doesnt repleace scaler 2 in your computer.
I am loving it and it has already started changing the way i approach song writing in ways that scaler 2 did not.
hopefully in the end the majority of people are happy with the product as i would like to see where they take things in the future as I believe this to be a massive step forward for scaler 3.
After using Scaler 2 for quite some time and loving it I was able for the most part to do what I needed to do in Scaler 3, some help from tutorials and some fiddling/fumbling around and eventually I managed. A few problems however I was not able to overcome:
1 - I was not able to create a complete 3 minute contiguous arrangement. After creating the first set of chords on the main track in the arrangement page (maxing out the main track timeline real estate) I wanted to make some changes at the beginning (just copy the last 2 chords to the start), and then duplicate all the chords twice thus doubling the length of the arrangement as desired. Every attempt to select the chords in order to move/duplicate them by dragging-selecting or ctrl-selecting them one by one crashed the DAW (Reaper) repeatedly, also with version 3.0.1. I luckily managed somehow painstakingly to copy the end chords to the start one by one (while saving the project in between) but not the duplication. I had to compromise and just loop the existing chords within Scaler. (Regardless of the crashes the arrangement page in Scaler 2 was better, more intuitive and gave me much more control for making changes to the song structure and chord playback parameters.) I also tried to accomplish the same task on the main track on the browse page, selecting was better but there wasn’t enough real estate on the track timeline in order to move/copy/duplicate the chords.
2 - I wanted to add more tracks in the arrangement page with various motions and designate them to MIDI channels for routing the output to other DAW channels with various instruments. However I could not audition the motions in the selector because the track had not yet been created, so I couldn’t set the MIDI channel. Frustrating, but not as much as not being able replace the (blindly) chosen motion in the new track with another one after the track had been created and MIDI routed.
3 - On the main track in the arrangement page when you click on some of the chords there are no controls for manipulation to the left of the mixer (like octaves and density), some have them and some show as empty.
4 - At some point I thought that maybe my Scaler project was corrupt, so I decided to export the chord set to xml, start a new plugin instance and then import the chord set. Importing the chord set xml to the user section in the browse page failed, the user section remained empty. Only “now” when writing this and double checking, I see that the chord set suddenly exists in the user section.
Thank you for the new version, for me personally the arraignment page is the main problem, but otherwise Scaler 3 is definitely a better version than the beloved 2. Hopefully I was just doing a bunch of wrong things. Looking forward with anticipation for more tutorials, improvements and fixes.
] item in the ‘Main Track’ gives you the same sort of features as the ‘Explore’ panel in the 2nd (unlabelled… oh.. ‘Create’) page… and this is actually one of the most valuable features for me… but I’m still working it out… and YMMV…
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