Scaler 1 to 2 was such a natural UI progression, it was just a few mouse clicks and you had a chord progression to work with. S3 looks so different by comparison and requires far more planning just to get going. I’m sure that the additional functionality will have merit to me someday but right now, I’m struggling with first page basics that were so easy in S1&2. As someone else pointed out, little things like hiding the MIDI Capture behind the record button (presumably to keep UI clean) seems gimmicky rather than helpful. Add me to list of earlier customers who is having trouble making sense of the new UI.
2 Likes
Davide, io non so who Resonant Design is. As a classically trained pianist, I truly cannot comprehend how S3 would help me write an orchestral score, but I’m in the software industry. It sounds like I may not be the target audience for this plugin, as I only do music for fun, in my spare time.
Now, I mean no disrespect to the team, or Resonant Design, but here is something that got in the way of my weekend fun…
The S3 app has the “capture midi” option, so I captured some midi, and tried dragging it - as it’s clearly available and pulsating, begging to be dragged. Nothing worked. It appears that all I can do with captured midi is save it to a file - the drag midi option doesn’t work in the app, so why is it there? Dragging it places would display scroll bars that also did absolutely nothing - how is this helping or intuitive?
Reading the manual, it says, “After detection, Scaler 3 processes the input and presents the results in an intuitive way. If MIDI Capture was used, the drag icon will flash, allowing you to drag the recorded MIDI to your DAW or computer.” Intuitive not, but also which DAW needs a plugin to capture midi? Is Resonant Design vibe coding this thing?
Joking aside, I believe that most of us providing feedback want Scaler to be better, as we’re in awe of the potential that it holds. That is why I posted. I truly look forward to learning from the videos how the things that make absolutely no sense to me, actually make great sense. I enjoy a healthy dose of humble every once in a while. If on the other hand these are sloppy usability bugs, you may want to have a word with Resonant Design. I’ll see myself out now, and I sincerely wish Scaler to be the best!
4 Likes
I’m really surprised to hear the UI was designed by a specialist company because there are some real inconsistencies in there.
Example 1.
Scroll bars. On the Browse page, select “All Scales” then mouse around. When the cursor is over the right hand pane in Section A (the one with Mode and Mood) a scroll bar appears and you can drag it with your mouse or use the mouse wheel. But when the cursor is over the left-hand pane (All Scales, Common Progressions etc) there is no scroll bar and there is no indication that there is more stuff off the bottom of the pane. The mouse wheel works but how is someone supposed to know to use it? On my particular screen Mood, User and Favourites are all out of sight. It’s the same with the MIDI modifiers on the Arrange page. No scroll bar - you just have to know or guess that there are more below the ones you can see.
Example 2.
Side bars. On the Browse page the left-hand column (All Scales, Common Progressions etc) is presented as rectangular boxes with text (and with quite a bit of wasted space). On the Create page the left-hand column is presented as square boxes with both text and icons. It’s like that page was designed by a completely different person or team.
Example 3.
Right mouse click.
Hardly anything supports right-mouse clicks. In fact a right-click mostly does the same as a left-click, which is very non-standard. Most users would expect a context menu or nothing when right-clicking.
Example 4.
Keyboard shortcuts. There are almost none!
It should be possible to navigate and do most things without a mouse using tab, cursor keys, enter, escape etc. It would be much slicker to use if we could select all, delete, cut, copy, paste etc.
None of these things are showstoppers but they are all things that could be better and more in line with the expectations of a typical user.
5 Likes
Jeez, now I just feel terrible. I really meant no disrespect to your UI designer; in fact, this could be a case of the client driving the designer into corners. I’ve been there myself, so I know it can be tricky making the client happy and still try to make a coherent interface - especially in something as complex as S3.
Anyway, I’m happy to see the updates. Please keep them coming and I’m sure we’ll be able to get the most of your software!
Feed the user manual into AI - @SonicMojo Its better than nothing - you can put this on your iPad iPhone or windows pc - download the pdf from scaler 3 - you can generate a visual mind map. in my opinion even if you understand the manual and read it back to front following it (with the interface as designed) can be an extremely difficult challenge to anyone but the actual designers of the thing but this should help and be a good first step. good luck! in my opinion the best bet Is to ask for a refund then put that money towards the iPad version which is due out soon as it’s likely to be a much more user centric product I suspect with a more sophisticated (read more minimal and easy to use/follow) user interfacel https://notebooklm.google
Just here to say I’m also a scaler user since the beginning and really dislike s3 UX and just use S2. Don’t really need the new features, although they are nice. The ux doesn’t feel like it was made by someone who makes music in a daw - to me anyways. S3 feels like it’s trying to be a daw or composing replacement and unfortunately that just will always feel kinda awkward I think. Give us efficiency mode or something ? It can be way down the road or something cause I’m sure yall worked hard on this.
6 Likes
I would like to clarify that I think the MIDI Capture / Audio Detection / MIDI Detection behind the record button is not good. That’s a miss and wasn’t ideal in S2 but still not great in S3. It’s quite interesting to me that every pro review for the software talks about how much better the UI is, how clearly laid out it is and how much more accessible things are.
I personally find it much easier to do more in S3 and I use it to write all the time. I’ve said it before though, we are listening, we have released several updates and we are working to improve it. I think its close to being really good and often its about not getting lost in the weeds and not focussing on whether there’s rectangular boxes here and square boxes there but making it a genuinely versatile writing tool that allows you to write in ways otherwise not possible.
Thanks for all the feedback and we do appreciate all constructive criticism.
5 Likes
I think it’s clear many more casual users feel left behind and no longer target audience. I only dabble, and doubt I would buy Scaler 3 were I a new user. I don’t really need most if what it does… which hasn’t stopped me buying Arturia, Toontrack… 
Thanks Davide, I’m part of the small minority that bought it primarily for Audio Detection. Are there firm plans, timelines to finally improve this area? It’s quite key for me, though I accept it’s probably quite a niche priority.
I am also part of this "minority " and this was the main reason why I bought Scaler 1 a long time ago. I am sure that the team will find an adequate solution.
Well just to clarify it works the same way as Scaler 2.9.1 and in many ways better. The detection results are better I find. It’s the implementation of it (behind the record button) which is not ideal. A priority for us this year is to significantly improve its functionality and efficacy to a new level. That will happen this year and this is hugely important for me too.
2 Likes
I agree,there are bottleneck creative flow issues that start with the transport bar being too fiddly to use.
Most if not all people need a solid classic transport bar(stop/start/record/loop) first then after that an arranger events page(midi/audio).
The process should flow from transport bar to arranger/events page with midi.
Then on a seperate tab should be the creative chord making.
Right now everybody complaining is because there is confusion between classic DAW workflow and scaler workflow.
People are used to an arrangement screen with transport bar first,then all the other layers are a double click away.
Until the confusion of what the current transport bar is for,is resolved people are going to hit a brick wall and get fustrated.
Right now people want to hit record and lay down a midi chord.
With all these new pages to create chords it confuses people as the work flow stops being linear and feels like a scattered workflow.
Anyways no pun intended but Scaler 3 main page is too overwhelming.
2 Likes
Hey @BCBCBC Welcome to the forum. I think you make some great points there. The Record Button was initially intended as a way to record onto the ‘User Track’ in the Arrange Page so you could record Chord Triggers, Keys Lock etc. We ran into some complications and decided to delay that part (will be there in 3.2) so we were left with the other options we had there which is what you see now (Capture, Detect etc). So indeed it is the disparity between Scaler workflow and DAW workflow that causes some consternation. With some nice workflow videos that are now being made and some improvements we will allay that. Thanks for the constructive feedback!
2 Likes
Just want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. It’s evolved into an incredibly valuable resource, highlighting areas where we can improve Scaler 3. We’ve updated the thread title to better reflect the current nature of the discussion and to continue encouraging user feedback – including constructive criticism. We take user feedback seriously, and several ideas from this thread are now part of our development roadmap.
7 Likes
Thanks, that’s interesting. Mainly user of a DAW and never used any version of Scaler prior to getting this (never even knew of it before a comment on a different music forum), but going into it, and having watched all the official tutorials, in my mind, rightly or wrongly, the Arrange page was the main event with the other pages more like sketchpad/sandbox pages.
I can see there are workflow videos for Scaler 2 on your YouTube channel. Are there any plans for similar for a comprehensive end-to-end for S3 (if it doesn’t already exist and I’m just totally missing it)?
Edit: Sorry, just saw your comment earlier “We are about to launch a series of workflow videos showing the many ways to write a tune in S3 by various composers and producers, I think this will help immensely.”
Looking forward to it!
I have been using Scaler from the start. One thing I have noticed over time is the folks who run things are quite open to responses and act quickly to queries and issues. Although I too find glitches in the new version, I am progressing with my learning curve albeit slowly. That is ok for me.
I can tell you that I have software from other brands - some quite expensive -and do not feel the interest, support and response the Scaler folks provide. That being the case, I will continue with Scaler and be patient as they adjust and fix things along the way. Keep at it folks…
9 Likes
I agree! They’re working hard to help solve problems and improve the plugin; they deserve praise and recognition for being so good to our community.
8 Likes
yes, unfortunately they decided to mess up completely the UI making the tool frustrating and almost unusable. A waste of money. Too bad because Scaler 2 was cool.
3 Likes
Agree 100%. Cant wait for the new version with synchronization between multiple scalers since this is my main workflow with Scaler 2. I believe when the Scaler 3 mature have the potential to become something like the software equivalent of Zyklus Improvisor that Vangelis and others used in the past…
Thanks Davide for the reply.
I should have said I am forever grateful for Scaler and the patience to listen to our ideas.
I used alot of musts,coulds and shoulds in my post which I feel upon reflection was abit much.
What I meant to say is I recommend,kindly suggest.
The reality is, there is no other out there like Scaler.
Most charge extra for the patterns and different musical patterns like Jazz,blues,rock etc.
I guess it is a positive kind of fustration for some people,like arriving at an amusement park and wanting to go on every roller caster ride all at the same time.
What I mean is Scaler has so many exciting roller coaster style themes it can be overwhelming because of said excitement.
In short Scaler as it is is a nice problem to have,if that makes any sense.
2 Likes