I really miss the old workflow of Scaler 2, where you could put together different chord progressions as Patterns and then edit the parameters individually for each chord. The best feature of this was the Playback Performance Groups, where you could assign a certain set of parameters to a “Group”, and you could then assign the same parameters to any other chord by assigning it to that group. Scaler 3 sort of has this with the Sketch area, but not quite. I would love to see a page added after Arrangement called “Classic View”, that lets you use the old Scaler 2 style workflow described above. It’d be even better if the cap on the size and number of Patterns and the cap on the number of parameter Groups could be removed too.
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I actually wondered if there was scope to have a toggle between a “basic” and “advanced” mode. S3 has lots of features and can be a bit overwhelming and/or intimidating and many of the features are probably not needed for those who are just looking to try out a few chord progressions.
I’ve used a few synth VSTs that had such a toggle. In basic mode the controls are limited to a few filters and envelopes. Advanced mode gives you access to everything (possibly more than you ever wanted!)
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I think we’re kind of saying the same thing. Patterns pretty much was the basic version of what the Arrangement page became. Implemented in Scaler 3, it could be similar to Ableton’s two different views, where there’s a Clips page and an Arrangement page. You can build in either one and seamlessly drag clips from one to the other. The “clips” in this case would be the “Patterns” I described above. Honestly I think that’s why I have such a big issue with Scaler 3 in the first place. I work in Ableton, and I start out in the Clips view and put together my own drum and instrument loops. I usually even do at least a rough mix of each track as I go to make sure there aren’t any surprises when it comes time to actually put everything together. Final arrangement & adding any final automation where it’s needed are literally the last things I do before final tweaks to the mix (based on the final arrangement & automations) and then mastering. Scaler 3 basically forces you to create an arrangement start to finish as you go and I just can’t do it, I don’t work like that. I work middle-out, I get the main verse and chorus loops and general vibe of my track down and then work out everything else like intro, bridges, chorus, etc. from there, while I’m figuring out the final arrangement. It’s chaotic and it’s not the “right” way to build a song but it works for me. Scaler 2’s Patterns feature paired with it’s Playback Performance Groups was perfect for the way I work and I want it back in Scaler 3 so bad. Dragging Patterns over into Ableton’s Clip view and tweaking them from there was just so much easier than trying to fiddle with S3’s Arrangement view too. You didn’t have to drag over every single chord, you just dragged the button for the Pattern you wanted. You could even select multiple Patterns at once if you wanted more than 8 chords in your Pattern. Literally my only complaint was there was a limit on the number of Patterns and Performance Groups you could have in a single instance of Scaler. I don’t do super complex songs though so it was rare that that was even an issue for me.
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Hi everyone. You’re already way ahead of me when it comes to using it.
I can’t even manage to import the ._Universal Orchestral Core.dpfe file using the official procedure indicated by the developer. I’ve tried everything. The application starts to import and then freezes permanently on the progress bar.
Frankly, I don’t feel like plunging body and soul into the personal programming of an entire symphony orchestra.
Does anyone have any idea what the problem is, or should I contact the developer ?
Do you really need the “Classic” look to do this?
This is simpler on Scaler 3 Arrange page: select a group of chords (1) and set the paramters for the group (2). Unselected chords will preserve their previous parameters.
And you can do this on ANY number of chords.
I genuinely don’t want to use the Arrangement page. As I said in my second post, it just doesn’t fit my workflow. Yes, I could technically do most of what I’m talking about in arrangement mode, but that means either having to keep track of where each “Pattern” of chords begins and ends, or creating a new track for each “Pattern” and still having to deal with everything else that comes with Arrangement mode. It also means still having to select each chord in a pattern / progression instead of just dragging a single tile over to an Ableton track for editing the MIDI (because why would I edit my MIDI in Scaler 3 when it loses scale awareness when you do so and you also don’t get all the actual MIDI tools your DAW itself offers?). There’s also no way to quickly apply the same parameters to other “Patterns” like with the old Playback Performance Groups feature. It genuinely feels like there’s no middle ground where you can use Scaler as little or as much as you want; the arrangement page really doesn’t leave much wiggle room for any workflow besides the one they specifically designed it around. I’m not even asking for anything complicated like a workaround for Ableton’s lack of robust MIDI routing. I don’t need that or care about it. I literally just want features and a workflow option that already existed.
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Hi Volker - something that might help, the file you are trying to import is an AppleDouble file, specified by the “._” prefix. These files are basically used to store extra information, like Finder metadata for Macs. You don’t see them on a Mac as they are hidden. The real file doesn’t have that prefix.
Unfortunately, I don’t have any knowledge of, or experience with, “.dpfe” files - are they something to do with Divisimate?
The only files I am aware of that Scaler 3 can import are chord sets in xml format, can you point me to the procedure indicated by the developer that you mentioned?
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I’m truly not trying to be snarky here. But perhaps the easiest solution would be to just continue to use Scaler 2 for your workflow? Or maybe use Scaler 3 for the parts you find you like? You can have them both installed at once, even Scaler 1 I would think (although I haven’t tried that).
Just a suggestion.
Not sure why people keep coming here to tell me I can just do it this way or that way. This is a feature suggestion subforum and I posted about a feature I’d like to see. I’m not asking for workarounds or alternate workflows and I’m well aware I can just use Scaler 2 if I really want to work that way; I’m asking to be able to use Scaler 3’s chord discovery and suggestion improvements and new performances with Scaler 2’s old workflow implemented into Scaler 3. I even suggested an implementation that would actually compliment arrangement mode. I’m specifically asking for this because I don’t like any of the workarounds I’ve come up with or that’ve been suggested to me. Like, I literally know how I want it to work and that’s why I requested what I did. I appreciate that you’re trying to be helpful but if I wanted to do things a different way, I wouldn’t have made this suggestion.
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Hi, it was very helpful. Only Apple have been extracted. That’s why it I couldn’t import them.Now I have to arrange .cpr file for cubase with all the instruments. I hope all articulations will be used accordingly when I load libraries.
Thanks a lot
I think your classic view suggestion is a great idea.
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Agreed, BrothelWaffles — also an Ableton grid user here, and Scaler 3’s new arranger view is a massive step backward for my workflow. They removed everything that made Scaler useful: performance mode, multiple chord patterns, and flexible progression workflows.
What I loved about Scaler was being able to sketch out multiple ideas in different patterns and trigger them freely. That’s completely gone. Now it’s just: “Lay out your song linearly in our arranger view.” But why would I do that inside Scaler when I already have a full DAW?
Not only did they strip out all flexibility, but they replaced it with something every DAW already does. I don’t want to arrange entire songs in Scaler. I want to build musical ideas and experiment. That’s what Scaler 2 did so well.
It was a Swiss army knife for chord progressions that fit into many workflwos. Now it is locked into the arranger view.
And to @RBIngraham: this is the feature request forum. Conversations like this are exactly the kind of feedback developers need to hear.
@Miki — I appreciate the suggestion, but it doesn’t solve the core issue: I don’t want to work in a linear chord-block format at all.
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Finally, somebody who gets it and can also articulate it a bit better than I can! Like, I couldn’t be less interested in Arrange mode. I keep waiting for it to click like everyone keeps saying and it’s just not happening, no matter how much I try to use it. I appreciate that it’s useful for a ton of people and I’m not gonna sit here and say it’s outright bad, but it’s just not for me.
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I guess this shows the problem with putting DAW-like functionality inside a plugin. It’s never going to be as good or as comprehensive as a full-blown DAW so folks are always going to be asking for it to be improved.
It does seem to me that they have taken their eye off the ball a little in reinventing the whole UI without understanding how folks used Scaler 2. Maybe some of that stuff will get added going forwards. Just keep making the requests.
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Yeah yeah yeah…
A. Yes, I didn’t notice that this was under the “feature request” section of the forum. I never pay attention to that and don’t browse the forum in that way. My Bad.
B. I never said it was a bad suggestion, nor did I say users shouldn’t ask for things. Was just trying to be helpful. I thought I presented my suggestion in a pretty damn respectful manner. Guess I won’t make that mistake again.
I don’t really use the Arrangement view too much in all my music to picture. And I use Sketch mode with different performances and trigger them freely no problem using MIDI Mapping. Too many users focussed on Arrangement view as the be all and end all. This was introduced to replace having to use many Scalers across the DAW. I think it’s a case of just trying to make music and not feel you are being dictated to having to using the arrangement page.
After 3.1 and Main Track Live sync which will align it much closer to Scaler 2 we are going to make Arrange Page much more powerful and flexible.
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That’s a great idea.
I agree you, @BrothelWaffles,
You’re not even criticizing the new version, just simply making a feature request.
A classic view is actually a very good feature request. Unfortunately, Scaler 3 changes certain behaviors in workflow we’ve grown accustomed to. I personally love the new arranger track UI/Workflow, but since we can’t yet create our own phrases, I’m unfortunately stuck with Scaler 2 until that feature is added.
For me, as a not yet fluent keyboard player, Scaler 3 could simply mostly replace my DAW’s piano-roll for recording
This is why @BrothelWaffles request is a good one!
Even though I do like the idea of Scaler 3 replacing my DAW’s piano-roll (for recording).
Other users don’t, introducing a classic view tab would solve this issue.
Me…I would want to be able to record/edit my own phrases within Scaler 3 for all the tracks in my DAW. This would massively speed-up/improve my workflow because I wouldn’t need to be manually re-routing MIDI in/outputs for each track each time.
I was kind of under the impression that that’s where Scaler3 was headed, to be able to jam out your musical ideas pretty fast without the need of being a full-fledged keyboard player. But with those fixed phrases, we pretty much get a musical generator instead of a tool that helps you write your own music in fine detail. Don’t get me wrong, the phrases are a really welcomed feature, it’s nice to have a sort of built-in EZKeys function within Scaler 
Glad this is finally getting some traction. Maybe with enough replies Davide will stop hand-waving away the fact that there are people who just plain don’t like the new workflow and it’s not just a matter of “getting used to it” or adding more features to arrangement view.
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