"Classic View" as an alternative to Arrangement Page

[Isaac]

@davide

I don’t really use the Arrangement view too much in all my music to picture. And I use Sketch mode with different performances and trigger them freely no problem using MIDI Mapping. Too many users focussed on Arrangement view as the be all and end all. This was introduced to replace having to use many Scalers across the DAW. I think it’s a case of just trying to make music and not feel you are being dictated to having to using the arrangement page.
After 3.1 and Main Track Live sync which will align it much closer to Scaler 2 we are going to make Arrange Page much more powerful and flexible.

Looking forward to that!

I do think there’s a confusion in what people want and think that scaler is aiming for.
Like I’ve stated in my last few posts. I think Scaler is aiming to be a/the (ultimate) midi-tool for composing.

The problem is that there are like 3 different camps of users.

1. The advanced users who already know music theory and can play the keyboard well enough
2. The medior/advanced users (like me) who somewhat understand music theory and use Scaler as a tool to record their ideas, even though their not great keyboard players without struggles
3. The beginners who want to generate musical ideas with fixed phrases.

I think scaler could cater to all.
But it’s important to not disrupt existing workflows.
So I think that adding a classic view page wouldn’t hurt anybody.

Personally, I’m looking forward to being able to sort of replace my DAW’s piano roll with Scaler.
So that arranger page…yeah realy loved that you guys created that!! Just waiting for costum record features.
After recording my idea’s I would then record Scaler’s MIDI output to their respective tracks. Just to have my data complete. I did make a scaler arranger page request to be able switch views between player input and scaler output data. Editing/quantizing player input data is more efficient that editing/quantizing scalers out put data (more midi info to deal with)

[davide]

But you just want Patterns back right? I think having Scenes in Scaler 3.2 will help you there. Patterns were introduced to overcome the 8 chord maximum in S2. So I just thought having patterns like my old drum machines do would be a good temporary fix. The by product there is that we allowed editing per chord so you could have a different motion per chord. You can do that in the Arrange Page now with better flexibility. That really is the only main difference to Scaler 2. The solution here would be to allow users to assign a different motion to each chord in Sketch Page. Then you have S2 completely covered?

@Isaac

but since we can’t yet create our own phrases, I’m unfortunately stuck with Scaler 2 until that feature is added.

I don’t get it, you can’t create your own phrases in Scaler 2?

[BrothelWaffles]

The sketch page with all the functionality that Scaler 2’s Patterns had is pretty much exactly what I’m looking for. I do think it should be it’s own separate page though and not mixed in with all the other discovery tools like it is now. I also think having that page laid out similar to Ableton’s Clips view and then having the two pages be able to interact with each other like Ableton’s Clips and Arrangement view do (sending parts from Arrangement to Clips via the right-click menu, dragging full Clips to Arrangement without having to select each chord / note) would really take Scaler 3 to the next level. Obviously I wouldn’t expect this to happen overnight, and it would probably be a lot of work and may not entirely mesh with the direction you’re intending to head in, but I feel like it’s definitely something that’s at least worth considering. In the meantime, I could probably learn to live with the Sketch page just being expanded upon a bit for now, especially if the Scenes feature you mentioned bring back most of the Patterns functionality.

[Isaac]

Sorry for my late response.

Because in Scaler 3, the Mute function is not working for me. (Have to try the latest update though).
In general, I use Scaler’s MIDI output functionality to play other VST’s.

The way I use Scaler 2 is a bit orthodox.
Using CakeWalk I pretty much record all the MIDI “inputs” on Scaler’s track.
Using multiple track-takes on this track, I record the MIDI’s (phrases, let’s say) for all the other tracks.
So these tracks show/record the actual keyboard input MIDI info.
But scaler is midi routed to another VST track, so with the scaler’s instrument set to “none” I can hear the midi-routed track while playing/recording trough vst Scaler.
With CakeWalk I have the added benefit that I don’t even need to manually MIDI-route to the target track, just need to select it, and I can hear it .

So my workflow looks something like this :

• In Scaler’s track - take one: Record MIDI for my piano track.
  This is MIDI input data, so it makes it easier and less work to quantize/edit the MIDI
  When finished, quantize and edit the MIDI on this take track…
• Route Scaler to Track 2 - piano VST, and record Scaler’s midi-out
  which I already edited/quantized on Scaler take 1 track.
• On Scalers track, mute the “take one” track
  and now select (route) scaler to track three, which has a let’s say Guitar vst
  loaded.
• Now in Scalers track - take two: Record MIDI for my guitar track.
  Again…this is midi input data, so it makes it easier and less work to quantize/edit midi
  When finished, quantize and edit the MIDI on this take track…
• Record Scaler’s midi-out to Track 3 - guitar VST,
  which I already edited/quantized on Scaler take 2 track
• Repeat this for all my VST tracks.
• At the mixing/mastering stage, “freeze” all the MIDI tracks to essentially only work with the audio.
• If, for some reason, I need to edit a track or parts of that track, unfreeze it and repeat the steps above.

So, in essence, on Scaler’s track, I record all the MIDI inputs for all the other instrument tracks
using takes.
Then, 1 by 1, record Scaler’s output MIDI to the actual VST tracks by soloing Scaler’s track takes.

That’s why I really do like the fact that Scaler now has its integrated arranger page. Because now I could essentially do this whole workflow within Scaler…even better…this workflow could work for every DAW.
The only issue is that, for now, we can’t record our performance in the arranger track.
And this is what I meant by creating my own phrases.
With Scaler 2, I just use the DAW’s tracks to record what I play.

But with Scaler 3, somehow the mute chord function doesn’t work.
When I trigger a chord note on my keyboard, it plays the chord even when it’s in a muted state, I need it to keep the chord silent while being able to play that chord’s notes.

And also on that other thread, I requested that to add the mute “trigger key” back, because I’d need the keyboard/mouse even less. Now I have to Shift+click on a chord to mute it instead of just using my keyboard.
Oh…and this mute trigger key should also be able to be recorded in the arranger tracks.