Hi,
I’m using Scaler 3 in Ableton Live, and have a progression synced to the DAW. It plays fine the first time through, but every time it loops after that the first chord of the progression is doubled (I’m guessing), and much louder. Is anyone else experiencing this?
Thanks.
I’ve also noticed that it only happens when live loops around to the beginning of its loop marker, but will not happen solely if the scene loops inside Scaler.
Hi @pmumble welcome to the forum. This isn’t an issue I’ve encountered before and not something I’m able to replicate using Scaler 3.2 in Ableton Live 12 on Mac OS 15. Please ensure you have updated to the latest version of Scaler 3 (currently v3.2) if you have not already.
It sounds like you have created a progression on Scaler 3’s main track, and are using Ableton Live’s loop controls but I can’t think of what to suggest based on your description. Are you able to supply a screenshot, or better yet a video of what is going on to help us understand better exactly what you are doing?
Hi Tristan,
Thanks for responding. First off I’ll see if I can reproduce this in a clean session. I’ll also see what I can do about a screenshot or video. Thanks!
I’m sorry for not mentioning, but importantly I am using a VST plugin. I’ve been testing this in a clean session, and I’m having it happen even before looping sometimes.
The chords are much louder when it happens. I think what might be happening is MIDI note off messages are not being properly sent to the VST instrument sometimes, so the chords are doubling up. I’m not sure what is triggering it, it seems random - but if you loop a chord progression a few times it will begin to happen. Sometimes the notes will even get stuck on the VST after the sequencer is stopped.
I have been able to produce this with various VSTs. I’ve done it in Phase Plant, Pigments, Jup-8000 V, Arturia Piano. It’s easier to hear if you use a sound with a high sustain volume (pad, etc, not a piano sound that fades out quickly). Make a short progression with alternating chords so you can hear when they double up easily.
Hi @pmumble thanks for the info. It might be best if you can provide video so I can see exactly how you are using Scaler 3 with Ableton Live.
What you are describing isn’t something I’ve experienced. The only explanation I can think of is if you are playing MIDI data in Ableton Live that has been dragged or exported from Scaler 3 e.g. main track chords, and Scaler 3 is in DAW sync mode playing the same main track progression, in which case chords will doubled as they are being played by both Ableton Live and Scaler 3.
Hi Tristan,
No, I’m not dragging MIDI clips out to Live. This is in a clean Live session with all other tracks deleted, only Scaler 3 is present as a plugin on the singular track. The notes are coming from chords inside Scaler and I have not modified them at all from the ones from the built-in progressions. It’s intermittently occurring which leads me to believe this is a defect. I haven’t figured out yet how to take a video with sound properly captured from my RME interface, but I’m working on that.
Hi @pmumble This is most certainly not a defect in Scaler 3. Does it happen when you use Scaler 3’s internal instrument? Not much we can do unless you provide a video but this is most certainly to do with your routing or ADSRsetting in your third party VST. Sorry we can’t help further.
Hi davide,
It does not happen with Scaler’s internal instruments, only VSTs. I will provide a video as soon as I figure out what software I can use to create this.
I tried many different VSTs and they all exhibited the same behavior, so I am fairly certain it is not the settings in any one VST. This is in as clean of a session in Live as possible. The only thing I’m doing is choosing a few chords added to Main Track, looping, and pressing play in Live. There are no MIDI routings, just one track with Scaler on it, using its own MIDI generation straight to the VST.
I’m a professional software developer for over 25 years so I understand QA and am doing my best to provide the details necessary. Please do not discard my experience as invalid on assumptions that are incorrect.
Again, I will try to provide video evidence of this ASAP.
So after more experimentation I would call it an intermittent unexpected volume increase. It seems that sometimes it isn’t due to notes ringing out, but they are just simply played much louder. Whether this is due to them doubling up or some other reason, I’m not sure. I can’t monitor MIDI messages between Scaler and it’s VST.
Still working on a video. So far the tools I’ve tried do not capture my RME audio with the video.
If Scaler 3’s internal instrument work as expected then we can eliminate a ‘defect’.
So the question is why are your VST’s not receiving a MIDI Note OFF message? Are your notes beyond the clip borders?
Try the following:
Hi,
Here is a video showing what is happening. You can see the session is as simple as can be. In this example I am using Phase Plant with only a single analog oscillator and amp env. As I explained in my last message, this might not be due to note off messages. On the 9th chord (the third loop) you can see and hear the volume increase of the chord.
OK that’s helpful @pmumble
That’s a double trigger for some reason.
Can you do me a favour and try switching sample rates? Go to 44.1kHz and see if that behaves normally (I’m assuming you are on 48kHz).
Thanks @davide,
I tried switching between 48khz and 44khz and there doesn’t seem to be any difference. It’s still double triggering.
Hi @pmumble. Thanks for the extra info. I’ve been able to replicate the double‑trigger you’re seeing, whilst others on the team haven’t, so the exact trigger remains unclear. I’m also experiencing it far less consistantly and prominently than in your clip.
So it does seem as though something is going wrong, but will require further investigation. We’ve logged this with the dev team and will try to address it if possible in an upcoming update.
Thanks for your reporting here.
Thank you! I’ll post if anything else becomes obvious.