# Perfectionism **URL:** \ **Category:** Scaler 2 General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 1, 2022, 7:36am UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513 "2022-09-01T07:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ed66](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/ed66/32/5339_2.png) [@ed66](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ed66)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 11:33am UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/21 "2022-09-02T11:33:47Z")
Hi guys, Just been looking at this and exported the midi for the C Lydian scale played with 13ths. Looking at the notes the chords are actually made up from the triad +7+9+11+13. Of course I may be talking rubbish aout this, but it is easy to forget that the C Lydian scale is actually the lydian mode of G maj not C maj. The lydian mode of C maj is he F Lydian scale. Given that C Lydian scale is actually the lydian mode of G maj and the 11th is F#, I wonder if the > [@ClaudioPorcellana](#): > > many notes out-of.tune may be caused by disonnance arising from the number of notes used to make up the chords. Certainly I don’t think my brain can cope with this number of notes played as a chord, but played as an arpeggio I think they sound really nce. ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/22 "2022-09-02T14:40:00Z")
> [@ed66](#): > > may be caused by disonnance arising from the number of notes used to make up the chords. maybe, who knows? Anyway, during the time, I found that sometimes the solos driven by Scaler Keys-Lock, notably “Chord notes” are amazing, while many other times they suck, forcing me to use the Ableton’s scales The drawback of Ableton’s scales is that they don’t follow dynamically the Scaler’s chords, so I am forced to play keyboards better 😀 Well, this is not exactly a defect, considering I am forced to improve, but I am a lazy pupil 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![jamieh](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/jamieh/32/1139_2.png) [@jamieh](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/jamieh)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 3:10pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/23 "2022-09-02T15:10:57Z")
I’ll assume here that Claudia really means **out of scale** or **out of key** rather then _out of tune_ which is a different thing. ---
**Author:** ![panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@panda](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/panda)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/24 "2022-09-02T15:50:46Z")
> [@ed66](#): > > caused by dissonnance arising from the number of notes used to make up the chords English guitar god Guthrie Govan discussed this in one of his books. He points out that in a major 11th the 7th and 11th are a tritone apart, so it sounds off. Another is a dominant 11th where the 3rd and the 11th are a semitone apart and clash badly. He proposes chopping such chords down to 4 notes; {1} the root {2} the third, to give major or minor tonality {3} the 7th, to indicate if it’s dominant or not, and {4} the relevant one of the 9th, 11th or 13th. He also emphasizes that the voicing is critical to enable the desired tonality. Root at the bottom, extensions at the top, with the low end notes given as much spacing as possible. Thus the essential characteristics are conveyed within a mix, but notes are less likely to clash. He then goes on to propose how the voicings should be approached, making suggestions such as borrowing a note from another mode if that sounds better. A summary of the chapter would be that it’s really easy to make what he calls ‘big scary chords’ sound like crap. ---
**Author:** ![ed66](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/ed66/32/5339_2.png) [@ed66](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ed66)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/25 "2022-09-02T16:38:03Z")
Just a thought (and at the risk of teaching people to suck eggs), but if you are jamming to a C Lydian scale, as it is based on the G maj scale, how about using only the notes from either the G maj pantatonic or the G blues scale in the jam ? ---
**Author:** ![panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@panda](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/panda)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/26 "2022-09-02T18:29:20Z")
> [@ed66](#): > > but if you are jamming to a C Lydian scale, as it is based on the G maj scale, how about using only the notes from either the G maj pantatonic Indeed. It can be easily overlooked as to what scale fits in which other scales. Alternates might be easier fingering too. This is why I built my spread sheet comparison gizmo, which allows you to compare {1} any chord in any key with any scale in another key or {2} just as you have suggested another scale as opposed to the nominal one being played So you can key in the playing scale (C Lydian) and then the root of the alternate scale (G) ![a](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/uploads/scalermusic/original/2X/0/0d94a1268632cef6372bf72107f9fa1f51cdcd89.jpeg) The notes in the playing scale (with the raised 4th are shown on the 4th row of the table. Having set the parameters, we look to the corresponding scale/mode tables and see that (bottom table right hand side) below there are 5 matching notes in C Lydian and G Maj pentatonic i.e. the pentatonic shape will always fit with the Lydian. The grey boxes marked ‘S’ show the notes of the comparison scale.so you can see graphically what fits and what doesn’t. ![b](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/uploads/scalermusic/original/2X/c/c26705b35aa1595c5c33a884df7499a8716c41b3.jpeg) So I can also see at a glance that there are 5 matching notes (number on RHS) between C Lydian and G Ionian Augmented #5, and I just need to watch the bE and it doesn’t matter which I play. (TMI, perhaps 🙂 ) ![c](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/uploads/scalermusic/optimized/2X/0/00f4c365cf1fde7f1ebc18eb53c1c72277f0f602_2_690x56.jpeg) Where I’ve found this interesting is that such substitutions give Scaler a new set of chords to branch off to. Spreadsheet freely available … if you want a copy PM Panda. ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/27 "2022-09-02T20:17:03Z")
> [@jamieh](#): > > **out of scale** or **out of key** rather then _out of tune_ which is a different thing. I think I mean the first thing but unsure 🤔 I try to explain: the notes played in solos don’t match (by ear) sometimes with the chord offered by Scaler And, this doesn’t happen if I select an identical scale in Ableton Live I suspect that guitar solos sound better because the long notes made with the Pitch control, producing an effect [similar to the lever here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB_-DcmAmOc) in a real guitar ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/28 "2022-09-02T20:22:07Z")
cool! the problem is that I play the keyboard by ear and by instinct, so I don’t know what keys clicking to produce what 🥹 ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/29 "2022-09-02T20:31:45Z")
BTW, note that Keys-Lock doesn’t let you play ANY notes you want, but only the notes it (Scaler) wants 😀 It means you are helped, but limited at the same time About using multiple/different scales for guitar solos instead, I made this tutorial that explain how doing that [https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/multiple-scales-in-series-for-guitar-solos-using-scaler-green-keys/11468](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/multiple-scales-in-series-for-guitar-solos-using-scaler-green-keys/11468) ---
**Author:** ![Bernd](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/bernd/32/1320_2.png) [@Bernd](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/Bernd)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/30 "2022-09-02T21:36:23Z")
The equivalent to the e-guitar whammy bar on a keyboard would be the pitch bend wheel. ---
**Author:** ![RBIngraham](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/rbingraham/32/2645_2.png) [@RBIngraham](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/RBIngraham)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/31 "2022-09-04T19:26:18Z")
For what it’s worth I use a dice app on my phone. I like it because you can set it with as many or as few dice as you want and with as many or as few sides for each die as you wish. So, when you want something with only 4 sides or something with some other odd ball number like 12 or 13 you can do that. ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 9:55pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513/32 "2022-09-04T21:55:53Z")
yes, I know that, and because the longer notes you make with it, maybe that the “not in tune” notes are rarer But I stop my OT here, so make way to the OP topic! 😀 [Previous page](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/perfectionism/11513.md?page=1)