# From Ableton to? **URL:** \ **Category:** Scaler 2 General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 25, 2022, 12:14pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662 "2022-09-25T12:14:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RBIngraham](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/rbingraham/32/2645_2.png) [@RBIngraham](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/RBIngraham)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/21 "2022-09-26T15:58:40Z")
Of course, they are each suited to certain tasks. I just try to not be religious about any of them, like some folks seem to get. If you know what I mean. I loved ACID, had it since it first came out, Vegas as well, back when it was just a multi track audio editor, before they went down the video path. From my experience, I think Magix tries hard but most of the old Sonic Foundry software can be quite buggy which is why I left Samplitude, and all the old Sonic Foundry apps and moved over to being almost all Steinberg. I only use Vegas for the occasional video edit. I forgot about Cakewalk. I know a few that still swear by it and have used it for a long time and still feel it works very well. The Gibson days were poor which is when I left my Sonar license in the dust bin. But I think Bandlab has done a good job of bringing it back up to date even if it’s not at much development as the paid products get. But hey for free, it doesn’t hurt to give it a look. ---
**Author:** ![jamieh](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/jamieh/32/1139_2.png) [@jamieh](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/jamieh)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/22 "2022-09-26T15:58:57Z")
@ClaudioPorcellana I don’t know why you don’t just get the full version of Ableton. it has a lot more going for it and you wouldn’t have to learn a new DAW layout. Well worth even for a Jammer. ---
**Author:** ![ed66](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/ed66/32/5339_2.png) [@ed66](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ed66)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/23 "2022-09-26T16:20:36Z")
> [@panda](#): > > Cakewalk seems to have a bad reputation I’ve used Cakewalk for many years but keep trying out other DAWs as Cakewlak does seem to suffer from periodic bouts of instability (possibly due to legacy code as it has been around for a long time?). Also it can be a bit of a beast to get your head around, but it is free from Bandlab with really comprehensive midi routing, and has some excellent fx plugins in the Sonitas range (a bit old but really good quality): and Scaler works well in it as do vst2 and vst3 plugins. One thing I will add to this is that Bandlab keep issuing updates which suggests that they are actively maintaining the software. ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/24 "2022-09-26T16:26:27Z")
> [@jamieh](#): > > I don’t know why you don’t just get the full version of Ableton Because it has a lot of stuff I will never use, like the Standard version BTW My current workflow contains a few plugins and they are more or less the same I am not a professional, so I don’t need everything For example, Minimonsta has about 600 presets, while my preferred ones are just some dozen… And this is the reason why I will never ever think to buy Omnisphere with its mega-gazillion of presets > Which Max 4 Live device was this? I mean [Max4Live addendum](https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/#max-for-live), needed to use the BBCSOdivisi Project, that is the sole reason why I bought it, but I had tons of issues with BBCSOdivisi Project, so I gave up (after a whole useless afternoon, not 15 minutes as you may think 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![jamieh](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/jamieh/32/1139_2.png) [@jamieh](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/jamieh)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 4:37pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/25 "2022-09-26T16:37:10Z")
> [@ClaudioPorcellana](#): > > > Which Max 4 Live device was this? > > I mean [Max4Live addendum](https://www.ableton.com/en/shop/#max-for-live), needed to use the BBCSOdivisi Project, that is the sole reason why I bought it, but I had tons of issues with BBCSOdivisi Project, so I gave up (after a whole useless afternoon, not 15 minutes as you may think 😉 ) Max4Live does not run in the Standard edition. You need the full Suite for that. So it seems, like always, you are exactly where you want to be. You have the DAW you like. Why do you think you need to change? I don’t understand it. It makes absolutely no sense to me. My advise as it has always been - Learn the DAW you have inside and out. It will do all you want it to do. Good luck and Happy Jamming. ---
**Author:** ![panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@panda](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/panda)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/26 "2022-09-26T16:39:48Z")
> [@ClaudioPorcellana](#): > > ever think to buy Omnisphere with its mega-gazillion of presets That’s rational … If you auditioned the standard Omnisphere library and took 30 seconds on average to curate each one, it would take maybe 15 day at 7 hours a day to get through them 🙄 They have however, developed a very good instrument and genre based browser, but it also has ‘sounds like’ matching, which means you can be quite selective in your sound searches. However, merely listening to them is not helpful because you will have forgotten what the first 3,000 sounds like on about day 5. Hence, you need to spend time to have some form of catalogue or structured notes to have best use of of it. However, it is an amazing synth (just look at the film credits on their web site) and it’s my ‘go to’, along with DUNE 3. Plus, it’s 8 part multi-timbral, so it cuts down the set up in Live.. ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/27 "2022-09-26T16:42:02Z")
> Max4Live does not run in the Standard edition. You need the full Suite for that. NOPE, you can [buy it apart](https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/206407124-Buying-Max-for-Live-) and use it So the problem was the BBCSOdivisi Project maybe, or just a complex (not well explained) process to activate both Ableton Live Standard and Max4Live ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/28 "2022-09-26T16:43:13Z")
> [@jamieh](#): > > You have the DAW you like. Why do you think you need to change? Because Ableton is not ideal for certain MIDI jobs For example, to send the Scaler output to different channels (for my Garritan or BBCSO for example) I must drop tons of MIDI tracks in the middle, so that the tracks area becomes enormous ---
**Author:** ![ed66](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/ed66/32/5339_2.png) [@ed66](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ed66)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/29 "2022-09-26T16:43:45Z")
> [@ClaudioPorcellana](#): > > NOPE, you can [buy it apart](https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/206407124-Buying-Max-for-Live-) and use it It just costs money. > [@ClaudioPorcellana](#): > > My current workflow contains a few plugins and they are more or less the same > I am not a professional, so I don’t need everything I wish I had his sensible approach. ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/30 "2022-09-26T16:48:36Z")
In other words: the only thing I dislike about Ableton is the complexity needed to drive orchestral plugins as my Garritan or BBCSO; Apart that it’s perfect SO, I’ll simply forget the orchestra theme for now BTW, my preferred orchestra could be a very crazy one: 1. No one main bandleader, but some dozens of single bandleaders, just tied up (partially) by scales 2. No scores at all 3. No instrumentalists that know the music theory, read the scores, or play properly their hardware The day I’ll be ever able to found that orchestra, I’ll call it The Madmen Jam Orchestra 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Bernd](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/bernd/32/1320_2.png) [@Bernd](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/Bernd)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/31 "2022-09-26T17:46:05Z")
> [@panda](#): > > If you auditioned the standard Omnisphere library and took 30 seconds on average to curate each one, it would take maybe 15 day at 7 hours a day to get through them 5 years ago, I bought Komplete Kontrol Ultimate Edition, with some over 30k presets, and I am still discovering new presets every day. It’s actually fun, lots of replay value 🙂 Same with Arturia Analog Lab V… maybe I should get Omnisphere too, LOL ---
**Author:** ![Bernd](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/bernd/32/1320_2.png) [@Bernd](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/Bernd)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/32 "2022-09-26T17:47:48Z")
> [@panda](#): > > @bernd went to Bitwig from Live (sort of) so he might have some insights into the rationale for that switch. The problem is that genre (IMHO) is an important factor in DAW choice so, as we have all come to know and love, with your exceptionally eclectic works that might make your choice trickier ☺ Can’t speak to Bitwig’s suitability to @ClaudioPorcellana 's use case. But Bitwig is certainly Scaler friendly… > [@Is anybody using Scaler with Bitwig 16 Track?](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/is-anybody-using-scaler-with-bitwig-16-track/6658/2): > > I’m having so much fun with these 64 parallel Scaler 2 instances that I can jam with. Each horizontal row is mapped to the same type of performance/style but a slightly different variation. I have made use across the rows of Performances, Phrases, Melodies, Colors, Themes, Triplets, alternate timings, etc. but all based on the same underlying chord progression. Each of the clips contains a note from C2-C3, triggering the respective chord via key binding in Scaler 2. So the notes are all synchron… That was a major reason I got Bitwig, the ability to nest MIDI plugins, which is a hassle in the Ableton Live version I had (10, Lite). ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/33 "2022-09-26T18:39:26Z")
Too bad I cannot sell you my useless 550 Minimonsta presets then 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Hulkko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/35a633/32.png) [@Hulkko](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/Hulkko)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/34 "2022-09-26T19:02:32Z")
Logic Pro X is a really good DAW. The price-quality ratio is right and easy to learn. ---
**Author:** ![jamieh](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/jamieh/32/1139_2.png) [@jamieh](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/jamieh)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/35 "2022-09-26T19:34:55Z")
If you are on a Mac which @ClaudioPorcellana is certainly not. Such is life. ---
**Author:** ![jamieh](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/jamieh/32/1139_2.png) [@jamieh](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/jamieh)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/36 "2022-09-26T20:24:19Z")
Any reason you haven’t tried Bitwig? I just spent 10 minutes with it and it seems to hit all the points you were looking for. Scaler can go on the same tracks as other instruments so routing is a breeze. @Bernd is the expert so he would know more. Seems cool to me. ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/37 "2022-09-26T21:11:27Z")
> [@jamieh](#): > > Any reason you haven’t tried Bitwig? Tried, and more than 10 minutes… 🤣 But as I said the only reason I tried Max4Live and other DAWs was to find an easier way to route Scaler to the various BBCSO and Garritan instruments Apart that, Ableton Live Standard is just fine, end even superabundant I recently checked better the BBCSO Ableton Templates, and they are a good base, and a lot of clicks saved I’ll just to add the same number of Scaler instances, and save my BBCSO Ableton-Scaler Templates, then I can start composing like Bach (Ouch! Not that easy 🤣) ---
**Author:** ![panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@panda](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/panda)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/38 "2022-09-26T22:00:18Z")
> [@ClaudioPorcellana](#): > > and they are a good base, and a lot of clicks saved They are still pretty big from a track count perspective and I have been looking at other ways to manage the midi if you don’t want 75 players in the orchestra. It seems to me that a critical issue is whether you drive each section of the orchestra with a different midi source, or whether you want to split one or more sources and direct the midi to one or more sections based on some rule such as pitch or velocity. I’ve been looking at ways to deal with the latter without having the totality of the templates, and plan to maybe post some ideas in due course. You may find it interesting to look at this, as it’s simple, but for a novice like me very instructive. BBC SO would fit with thus nicely. [![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/uploads/scalermusic/original/2X/2/23abf87e08bf80be216d4e34aee1c66cc469c29c.jpeg "SIMPLE Orchestration Concepts That SOUND Cool") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxXaxgUAe94) ---
**Author:** ![ClaudioPorcellana](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex012/user_avatar/forum.scalermusic.com/claudioporcellana/32/14242_2.png) [@ClaudioPorcellana](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/ClaudioPorcellana)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:12pm UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/39 "2022-09-26T22:12:38Z")
> [@panda](#): > > whether you drive each section of the orchestra with a different midi source, or whether you want to split one or more sources and direct the midi to one or more sections based on some rule such as pitch or velocity. I prefer the first option, using one Scaler instance for each instrument like your hands on each track of the BBCSO Ableton Templates ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://forum.scalermusic.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 6:33am UTC](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662/40 "2022-09-27T06:33:01Z")
‘trying’ Bitwig isn’t ideal. The demo version is very limited and missing half that features that make it the most creative and progressive DAW available imo. Left Cubase 12 Pro last year and couldn’t be happier. I would suggest you check out Polarity’s videos on YouTube, particularly Note FX and generative workflow. [Previous page](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.scalermusic.com/t/from-ableton-to/11662.md?page=3)